Peggythepirate
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:27/10/2011 8:51 AM)
"representatives in parliament for the disabled"
A lot of people are not happy with the turn of phrase 'the disabled'. It lumps a lot of disparate people together as if being disabled makes disabled people all the same.
I don't think representatives in parliament should be *for* the disabled. They should be disabled people themselves (albeit, informed and insightful people who understand other disabled people's needs as well as their own).
A very important issue impacting on disabled people's participation in the workplace and in life in general is accessible transport.
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pennycillin
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RE:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:27/10/2011 9:51 AM)
yes... for the disabled kinda makes me reply where are the people in that?
Can you make it clear that these are your own personal views etc and not
intended to represtn all disabled people? people in power tend to go
with one representavtive must be everyones views...
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Offworld
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RE:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:27/10/2011 10:21 AM)
>>> people in power tend to go
with one representavtive must be everyones views...<<<
Worse still, they have a tendency to select who that is.
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Norrin_Radd
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:27/10/2011 2:19 PM)
Noted. :-)
I felt that some sort of representation for disabled people was important. I don't consider myself part of a group, but I feel that one reason why things are taking so long to improve is that there is no "group"; few people seem to know about Atos or what the proposed reforms mean.
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devineDeb
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:27/10/2011 5:23 PM)
Hi Norrin_rad
there already are some disabled people in parliament, though they tend not to make a big fuss about it, but for example there are at least a couple of people who are wheelchair users in the House of Lords (not sure about the commons, but I think there are some there too).
I think it is better for lobbying groups to continue speak up on our behalf, just as other groups of people support their lobbying groups - but I don't want all of the lobbying groups to be charities, especially not ones where non-disabled people are running the charity but excluding disabled people from involvement.
regards, Deb
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:28/10/2011 2:14 AM)
Dame Anne Begg is an MP and full time wheelchair user.
There are at least 4 Ladies in the Lords who are fulltime users, and there may be more part time users.
There is at least one blind MP, and one with CP.
In the Lords I think there is one blind Lord, though there may be many more with visual impairments that are significant.
At least one Lord has lost a child due to disability, as has Cameron.
There are a handful who have disabled children.
Regarding your opening question, ask why both leaders of both parties feel that they can "meet a man" and diagnose them fit for work, or some work just by looking at them.
Being an MP may need "special" skills but x-ray vision and medical knowledge are not usually pre-requisites, and by making statements such as these gives "ordinary" people an open door to believe that they too can judge by a glance whether someone is "fit" for work.
Explain that the reality is that most illnesses and disabilities are not obvious.
The obvious disabilities are often found in people who can work and want to work, but society wont give them a chance.
Those who look less disabled are often the ones who are the least likely to be able to work, the most likely to "appear" well enough to work, where society cannot assist.
That point cant be made often enough - reasonable adjustments work for those with the "obvious" (wheelchair user, blind, deaf etc - in fact anything you can easily demonstrate) and yet those with pain, fatigue, fluctuating conditions, mental health problems etc cannot be adjusted for as easily.
So two points, dont lead by example when you are wrong, and dont assume those with the least obvious conditions are capable of work, and those who "look" disabled are least capable, when actually its the other way around.
Good luck.
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Hurtyback
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:28/10/2011 3:44 AM)
Norrin, good for you for setting up this meeting and speaking out!
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Norrin_Radd
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:28/10/2011 7:58 AM)
Thanks guys.
I was rather disappointed with Dame Anne Begg when I read har interview on the BBC's page. I wanted to get in touch with her, but usually MPs don't talk to people outside of their constituencies.
Although I don't like to consider myself part of a group, I think that as many people as possible need to make it clear how these reforms and business deals affect disabled people. It seems to me that the biggest sources of information regarding welfare come from the media, or from accounts of person A, who knows person B, who seems able to work.
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:28/10/2011 12:12 PM)
Dame Anne will talk to you, she sometimes pops in here for a read... the thing is that she is extremely intelligent, but often uses a very canny language, cant really explain but if you watch carefully what she does (remember she was a teacher...).
Vince Cable might be interested too, as he is business and development minister, and he did mention that he would be interested in what is happenign to disabled people as he thinks that the DWP are "dealing" with employing disabled people - anyone fancy inviting Uncle Vince to the party?
I think he will be horrified - he ain't stupid.
(yes, yes I know I have a little crush on him...)
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devineDeb
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:28/10/2011 5:04 PM)
now those are some good ideas Hossy .... especially the ones about what Norrin_Rad should say!
regards, Deb
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JLRRAC
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:29/10/2011 1:26 PM)
"few people seem to know about Atos or what the proposed reforms mean"
Whilst they might not know much if anything about Atos they do know about the proposed welfare reforms and so long as these welfare reforms they've been hearing about deliver a tax reduction in their pockets they couldn't careless.
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Offworld
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RE:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:29/10/2011 2:34 PM)
>>>
Whilst they might not know much if anything about Atos they do know
about the proposed welfare reforms and so long as these welfare reforms
they've been hearing about deliver a tax reduction in their pockets they
couldn't careless.
<<<
Unfortunately, true..... which is why Unum, (ideo)logical underpinning of the whole brutal mess, is the more promising target.
Especially as they're "advising" away the NHS whilst set to profiteer from insurance policies they have a bad US record of avoidance in honouring.
Now they're increasingly out in the open in the UK, advertising their name ... and business.
ATOS are a facilitator for Unum's benefits abolishing-agenda, via which members of the public who are presently pro benefits cuts could be just one medical problem or job-termination from impoverishment themselves (as is reportedly widespread in the USA, where the new wave of homeless aren't formerly poor people, they're often middle-class in background).
When it's their own necks potentially on the block, they may be inclined to listen more.
Also, they should consider what means more to the Government with alleged savings from their cuts -- filling the pockets of disposable/replaceable taxpaying sheeple, or filling those of the big "benefits-scrounging" Banks.
(Message edited by Offworld On 29/10/2011 2:37 PM)
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JLRRAC
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:30/10/2011 4:21 AM)
"Unfortunately, true....." "When it's their own necks potentially on the block, they may be inclined to listen more"
It is for this reason Offworld, Cameron and IDS are in such a hurry to see these welfare reforms through as quickly as possible before the "Hard working taxpayers" realise exactly what's going on. One of the problems with all this is that as Labour started these reforms they are in a bad position to challenge to put up much of a fight against what the government are doing.
The nearest thing to what we might have called hope we might have had would have depended on is numbers, numbers of disabled benefit claimants who were in a position to make their presence felt in a general election. I'm thinking of how during a recent general election much was being made of the various political parties targeting either the pensioner or gay vote as the political parties election managers realised the rise in pensioner/gay numbers elegible to vote could make the difference between winning and losing a seat.
When there is the clear example of sheer callousness towards the disabled as shown by the decision to remove mobility benefit entitlement to those using a wheelchair full time, their now being deemed not to be immobile, with not a single MP speaking out about this change and with there being no one interested, far too busy protecting their job either in parliament or in one of the many government dependant charities the full time wheelchair user can turn to to fight for their entitlement, what are we to do? In effect there is but one thing, and not something I suspect this government would shed a tear about beyond their required sound bite for the cameras, and that is to take steps (no pun intended) to end our misery ourselves.
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Norrin_Radd
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RE:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 9:41 AM)
So we're screwed?
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 9:52 AM)
What is screwing us is two fold;
Our inabillity to shout loudly enough
and
People's inability to listen.
Which is why actions such as speaking to your MP is essential (and applauded).
We have to get the message out there to everyone we know, people we dont know, and every disabled person and their carers and families.
That voice then would be loud enough...
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mistynow
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Reply To JLRRAC
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 10:15 AM)
Reply to JLRRAC (30/10/2011 11:21 AM)
When there is the clear example of sheer callousness towards the disabled as shown by the decision to remove mobility benefit entitlement to those using a wheelchair full time, their now being deemed not to be immobile,
Where has this been mentioned please ?
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DeusExMacintosh
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 10:30 AM)
Try not to stab him. 
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sofie2
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 10:32 AM)
misty - the draft criteria for PIP, (which will replace DLA) talks about mobilising and not walking. Basically, if you can use a wheelchair, this means no mobility payment - despite the fact that wheelchairs do cost a lot of money. (I mean, how can you mobilise if you have no wheelchair?)
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JLRRAC
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 10:52 AM)
Further to Sofie's response Misty, as I understand things those using wheelchairs fulltime will not be seen as qualifying for mobility payments as they are not expected to walk at all which is one of the requirements to access mobility benefits.
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mistynow
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 12:01 PM)
I thought that reading the draft that those in wheelchairs would be entitle to PIP mobility as it does actually appear to grade those users.....
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JLRRAC
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 12:24 PM)
I guess this is what Cameron, IDS et al meant when they said they intended simplifying the welfare system.
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Penthesalie
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 1:19 PM)
Sofie2
Yes, the crafty 'bar stewards' seem to be trying to restrict mobilising in wheelchairs in a similar fashion to the descriptors being used for ESA, so you'd have to have upper body restrictions on movement as well as the lower body problems.
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mistynow
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Reply To sofie2
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 2:33 PM)
Reply to sofie2 (01/11/2011 5:32 PM)
misty - the draft criteria for PIP, (which will replace DLA) talks about mobilising and not walking. Basically, if you can use a wheelchair, this means no mobility payment - despite the fact that wheelchairs do cost a lot of money. (I mean, how can you mobilise if you have no wheelchair?) Motability also finances Power Chairs on 3 year leases along with Wheelchair Accesible Vehicles so it would be contradictory stopping users being awarded PIP on the basis they are Wheelies and can therefore 'mobilise'
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Norrin_Radd
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 3:23 PM)
What should I ask regarding Atos? Anything?
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 4:12 PM)
I wouldn't bother.
Atos work with the criteria they are given, and the word on the (Union) street is that the employees are not happy either.
The criteria are shit.
However Atos are very bad at their job on a customer interface level, dealing with complaints and not following procedure.
So whilst we can complain all we like about the criteria, that complaint should be directed at the Government.
Atos can only be held guilty of being crap as a company, with poorly trained and badly motivated staff, and piss poor in-house performance from a customer perspective, so it wont be a bad thing to point that out too, but you may have to back that up with evidence - quote Dame Anne Begg (chair of the w&P select committee) who had two constituents who attended their WCA's, were sent away due to overbooking, and then had their benefits stopped for non-attendance!
That is the sort of sloppy performance that Atos need to stop. (and you can mention as an example).
The criteria are ludicrous, i am writing a semi-humerous article at the moment about how bad the criteria are, but I am sure that you can point out that the skills an employer wants far exceed being able to make a mark with a pen, press a button or pick up a coin.
What employers want (and you are in a good position to ask the careers section at the Uni) is reliable, punctual, hardworking people who can work to deadlines - actually it would be interesting if your careers advice centre could give you the "Top Five Attributes" an employer is looking for... and note that many sick and disabled people couldn't fill this wish list.
That would stump your MP (what, no mention of picking up empty boxes?!!! No mention of controlling your bowels?!!! And what about that pound coin?!!!!!)
Did I say "I wouldn't bother" ?
Maybe I would after all !
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sofie2
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 4:19 PM)
Excluding people who work with money, how many need to (in place of work) pick up a pound coin anyway? It's ridiculous. I can understand criteria like communication difficulties; but some of them are daft.
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devineDeb
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:01/11/2011 6:49 PM)
Hi
maybe you could ask how this company are allowed to continue operating with 40% of appeals being successful? (and a higher proportion being successful when a Citizen's Advice Bureau advisor or other expert is helping the client with the appeal)
You could mention that in some places they are calling people to a disability assessment which is then held in a physically inaccessible building
Why are they apparently allowed to ignore reports from experts about the person's impairment when the ATOS assessors are not experts on that particular impairment?
ANd why are the DWP allowed to continue operating the WCA at all when
a) the man who developed it admits it is not fit fir purpose
b) so many disabled people have demonstrated that it simply fails to capture their disability related needs and results in their being found fit for work when it is obvious that they are not?
regards, Deb
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Norrin_Radd
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:02/11/2011 2:27 AM)
Great, thanks.
Sorry, but what does WCA stand for?
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:02/11/2011 2:37 AM)
I dont think we want to turn that stone over (about appeals) as the reason is that the tribunals dont work to the criteria if they can see the person is not fit for work, but doesn't fit the criteria.
We have no recognised evidence, and an investigation will show that the tribunals may be doing this, which may get the tribunals tightened up.
Its the criteria that is wrong, so if we go down this road then we have to make sure that we emphasise the criteria being wrong.
22 out of the 50 assessment centres have stairs.
Ignoring the medical evidence is a good point, some people are called in before they have had to submit the ESA50.
This means that the essential data is not on the first screen of Lima.
The first screen of Lima dictates which questions are asked.
This is a very serious point, and an Atos failing.
Atos failings are multiple and the W&P committe have questioned them, but they dont give a damn as they are safe with their contract.
Why? Because the contract is about performance - a numbers game, not a quality standard. They dont get audited or checked on the number and types of complaints, or whether they have given a quality service.
As long as they get the required number off IB/ESA then they are fulfilling their contract - the governemnt dont care how this comes about.
Atos medical staff are not happy with the criteria, but the Lima makes it very difficult to put people into support group, or give them adequate points, and they are encouraged not to put people through.
They are pulled in for not hitting targets, and their lives made uncomfortable. So the good, decent medics leave in disgust, leaving behind the ones who are happy to be shites amd shite medics.
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hossylass
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Re:Meeting with MP
(Date Posted:02/11/2011 2:51 AM)
WCA is the Work Capability Assessment, essentially the medical test that you have to go through at (around) 13 weeks of being on ESA base rate, or when you are migrated over from IS or IB (income support on health grounds or incapacity benefit).
There are three conclusions to the WCA, you are found fit for work and told to apply for JSA (at which point you appeal and stay on ESA base rate), or you get ESA with WRA (work related activity) with the base rate plus an enhanced premium, or you get ESA SG (which is support group) which has a slightly higher enhanced premium.
The ESA WRA has two types, either income based or contribution based (National Insurance payments).
If you are on ESA WRA CB (contributions) this will stop after one year. People who are on it now will have their ESA stopped in April 2012 if they have had one year of it.
This is;
1) insulting - they have paid NI
2) puts them in a position of having no income of their own if they dont qualify for it as a means-tested benefit.
The means tested ESA has a very low level, so a partner of a disabled person will have to pay for them if they earn more than £149 a week...
All nice stuff.
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